You’d need the rate to multiply by five times to be equal. You have a hypothesis and no proof behind it, yet you treat it like it would multiply the incarceration rate by over five times had there been no famine. All this really amounts to is “PRC bad” for the sake of it.

Cool, as I said I have spoken to people who look fondly upon it, as well as other Socialist systems. Plus, I have done a great deal of research on these systems beyond simple anecdotes. Marxists tend to support Socialist countries like the USSR, and I’m a Marxist-Leninist. I don’t just “glaze” Socialist countries, I contextualize them and give reasons why I support them, and why I want to create a system similar to them in my country.

Doesn’t matter. I have spoken to people from the Soviet Union. I don’t personally need to be from the Soviet Union to read on its history, or the devaststion that came from its dissolution, and you saying you or someone you knew was from it doesn’t invalidate those I have spoken to and the research I’ve done. It’s lazy, anecdotes matter very little in the face of hard metrics and facts.

How can I say this in liberal-ese? It’s well documented that the majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back. This is no surprise, 7 million people died due to the reintroduction of Capitalism, poverty skyrocketed, food insecurity skyrocketed, wealth disparity skyrocketed, prostitution and human traficking skyrocketed, and their economies were obliterated.

No, this is wrong. An economic system is a physical thing, it isn’t a group of ideas everyone agrees to follow. People can break laws and whatnot, but fundamentally the system is a physical thing. Your analysis is Idealist, not Materialist.

The CPC does acknowledge problems with the Great Chinese Famine, but you trying to pin it entirely on the CPC is wrong, as well as the idea that the CPC didn’t incarcerate as many people per capita is because of the famine. This is nonsense. Most countries do not imprison nearly as many people as the US does, and the PRC isn’t different in that respect.

There is an ongoing genocide of Palestinians.

It’s the system that determines how its run, not the people at the top. Your analysis is teetering into Great Man Theory territory, which is derived from Idealism, not Materialism. The mode of production is primary.

Secondly, yes, the government is responsible. Is the government also responsible for drought, though? What should be judged is that, as I stated, food production was dramatically improved, and the government eliminated famine in a country where famine was common prior to Socialism.

For what it’s worth, capitalism is progressive compared to feudalism, but regressive as compared to socialism.

Absolutely, Jax’s argument is silly.

The Great Chinese Famine was caused by a combination of radical agricultural policies, social pressure, economic mismanagement, and natural disasters such as droughts and floods in farming regions.

From Wikipedia. Western scholars exaggerate the human factors and minimize the environmental, which were the cause.

From Prolewiki:

It is true that agricultural production decreased in five years between 1949 and 1978 due to “natural calamities and mistakes in the work.” However, during 1949 and 1978, the per hectare yield of land sown with food crops increased by 145.9% and total food production rose 169.6%. During this period China’s population grew by 77.7%. On these figures, China’s per capita food production grew from 204 kilograms to 328 kilograms in the period in question.

China did not have a famine because of communism. China had a natural famine and while some policies strengthened it, others minimized it.

I’m not arguing based simply on rhetoric, but based on logic. If, say, 90% of a given group is consistent and the remaining 10% go against that consistency, when you hate on the group for the 90% but claim the 10% are fine, you need to call into question the final 10%.

You aren’t interested in debate with anyone, just shit-slinging against Marxists and trying to say fascism and communism are equivalent, in which case I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds. Further, it should be noted that liberalism and fascism aren’t really separate ideologies, but the same ideology in different circumstances, fascism in decay and liberalism in plenty. Both are supportive of Capitalism, only socialism is genuinely capable of beating fascism.

The CPC did not starve to death millions of people. There was famine in China from natural causes, and the CPC did their best to alleviate that as best they could, even if millions ended up starving despite their best efforts. The PRC is still a developing country, and this was ever more true during the Cultural Revolution. The Cultural Revolution had its fair share of issues, the modern CPC doesn’t look fondly upon it, but the famine would have happened even without Communists in charge, and in fact it did! Famine was common in China before it industrialized under the CPC.

Nobody genuinely “stans” countries. People support or condemn countries, with varying shades to each.

Further, a country being Socialist does not make it a magical utopia free from flaw. The PRC is better than the US Empire, but as I already said, I don’t have the money to move and don’t have the time or drive to devote to learning Mandarin. Neither of these are bad about the PRC, they just explain why it isn’t so easy a thing to say as “just move, lol.” It also erases that I want to help participate in building Socialism in the US, not just taking the easier path of abandoning it and letting everyone else struggle for that.

Moreover, the overwhelming majority of Marxist orgs at minimum support the PRC and DPRK. “Tankie” is just a pejorative for Marxist. There isn’t much to debate with you, you haven’t made a claim so much as you have spent time hating on Marxists.

Aww, thanks! Yea I’m dumb, but in my defense your sarcastic act and the genuine absurdity I have seen among anti-Communists are nearly indistinguishable, lol.

I think you’re being sarcastic here but I’ll be honest, I genuinely can’t tell, so either a good troll or I’m being dumb, haha.

I don’t follow, the author being positive about the working class running society rather than privledged elites having dictatorial control a la Capitalism doesn’t mean you need to dismiss the facts it brings up outright. Are you saying that, as someone biased towards Capitalism, you dismiss any criticism of Capitalism and any positive opinions on Socialism outright? If so, I can’t imagine how you live your life in other areas that contradict your current understanding!

To return, I don’t at all believe it’s suspect that the majority of people wished to retain Socialism, and this fact is further cemented by this same general notion being repeated over and over again in polling.

The opening of the Soviet Archives backs up these claims. If your pre-concieved notions about Communism are negative, I really recommend giving Blackshirts and Reds a read if you’ve got the time and willingness.

Why would it be suspicious? Different members of the USSR had different national conditions, some were quite nationalist and opposed being a part of the USSR, some were more internationalist and wished to retain the Soviet system. In the following years, there have been many studies verifying that of those who lived through Socialism, the majority wish it had remained over the devastation Capitalism brought to the majority of people.

That’s all this post was about, though, a comparison showing that per capita (and totally), incarceration rates in the PRC is far lower than in the US Empire. The purpose is to highlight the hypocricy of those who hold the PRC as more repressive than the US Empire, when the opposite is abundantly clear to anyone looking at hard metrics such as incarceration rates.

You decided to make a pivot in a completely different direction and just complain about Marxists, which just screams that you want attention more than anything. I suppose I’m providing that for you if that’s what you want, but really it’s just good practice to call out the incoherence of anti-communists.

Which part of comparing incarceration rates do you take issue with? Why is acknowledging the difference “mindless?”

You complained about Marxists, calling them “tankies,” same as “commie” or “pinko.” Further, I don’t agree that China is bad, as we can see it has a much lower prison population both in total and by ratio when compared to the US Empire.

I’m personally not planning on living in China, but I wouldn’t be opposed at all. Moving is expensive, learning a new language is difficult, and I’d be leaving my extended family and friends behind, but on the plus side I’d get to live in a much better country that is consistently and constantly improving, rather than a dying Empire crumbling under its own contradictions.

Why do you hate Marxism so much?